The Holistic Herbalism Podcast
The Holistic Herbalism Podcast
Herbs A-Z: Asparagus & Astragalus
This week’s herbs from our apothecary shelf are shatavari and astragalus! These are a couple of slow-acting herbs for long-term work. Their restorative properties take some time for full effect, but they’re worth building the habit. We prefer to prepare both of these as decoctions.
Asparagus racemosus, called shatavari, is an Ayurvedic herb with cooling, moistening, and relaxant qualities. It’s an adaptogenic herb which can improve the stress response – especially for people with dry constitutions. Shatavari is famous as an herb for the dry tendencies of aging humans, but it’s really good for anyone prone to dryness, or for whom depletion has led to fatigue.
Astragalus membranaceus is a Chinese herb which is mildly warming, moistening, and tonifying. It is an immune restorative herb, most appropriate when recovering from illness. It can also help build up immune reserves when one may go into a place where they’re likely to be exposed to sick people. Astragalus maintains our immune defenses, but it’s not an immune stimulant and it’s not an herb we take when we’re acutely ill.
The formula we mentioned drinkin today includes: shatavari, astragalus, cacao nibs, hawthorn berries, ginger, cinnamon, & cardamom.
These quick plant profiles were done off-the-cuff & on-the-spot. If you enjoyed them, we have more! Our organized & comprehensive presentation of our herbal allies is in the Holistic Herbalism Materia Medica course. We have detailed profiles of 90 medicinal herbs! Plus you get everything that comes with enrollment in our courses: twice-weekly live Q&A sessions, lifetime access to current & future course material, discussion threads integrated in each lesson, guides & quizzes, and more.
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Our theme music is “Wings” by Nicolai Heidlas.
This episode was sponsored by Mountain Rose Herbs. We thank them for their support!
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Speaker 2:And we're here at Commonwealth holistic herbalism in Boston,
Speaker 3:Massachusetts, and on the internet everywhere. Thanks to the power of the podcast. Asparagus astragalus Asperger a struggle as best dragon Lord. These are the herbs we're going to be discussing today.
Speaker 2:Uh, so we are continuing on our series of herbs a to Z, and this is herbs that are on our shelf. And to be honest,
Speaker 3:It's not every Arab in the world. It's not every medicinal herbs. It's not
Speaker 2:Even every herb on our shelf. It's every Arab in our upstairs shelf. We have some extra ones in the basement.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's kind of a small apartment situation. Yeah.
Speaker 2:The ones that we don't really work with as often, or like the overflow we're in the basement, but okay. So, but so today it is one of the Aspera guy, uh, not asparagus like you have at dinner time or lunchtime. I mean, there's nobody who can stop you from having asparagus for breakfast actually, but this is a different asparagus, uh, that you might know as shatavari.
Speaker 3:Yes. And then after that, we're going to talk about a straggle lists, uh, which you
Speaker 2:Might know as astragalus.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. That's pretty much what, so these are, uh, these are two, two cool herbs that can hang out together actually. And we're drinking a combination today. That includes shatavari and astragalus along with some cacao and some Hawthorne and some ginger and cinnamon and cardamom. And if I can say, so I think it came out really well. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm so
Speaker 3:Into it. So we'll come back to that formula in a minute. Um, but first let's remind you that we are not doctors. We are herbalists and holistic health educators.
Speaker 2:The ideas discussed in this podcast do not constitute medical advice, no state or federal authority licenses herbalists in the United States. So these discussions are for educational purposes. Only.
Speaker 3:We want to remind you that good health doesn't mean the same thing for everyone. Good health doesn't exist as an objective standard it's influenced by your individual needs, experiences and goals. So we're not trying to present a dogmatic right way that you should adhere to
Speaker 2:Everybody's body is different. So the things that we're talking about may or may not apply directly to you, but we hope that they'll give you some good information to think about. As my goal is to research further
Speaker 3:Finding your way to better health is both your right and your own personal responsibility. This doesn't mean you're alone on the journey, but it does mean that the final decision when considering any course of action, whether it's discussed on the internet or prescribed by a physician is always yours to make.
Speaker 2:And also today we want to thank mountain rose
Speaker 3:And also thanks. Mountain rose herbs, first sponsor mountain rose, herbs.com for
Speaker 2:Sponsoring our podcast, this episode of our podcast. Um, and you know, today I wanted to talk about salve making. Um, not that I probably would make shatavari or astragalus salve. I maybe, I don't know. I probably not as struggle as possibly shatavari maybe, um, I'm thinking about Solomon seal makes a really lovely SAB. So like maybe I might consider shutoff Rienna SAB maybe, but okay. But, um, last night at Q and a, so in our online herbal learning program, uh, all of our stuff is taught by self-paced video, but we have live Q and a sessions twice a week, so that you can ask your questions directly to us and get an answer right there. You can also ask them in writing and stuff and whatever. But anyway, so last night in the Q and a session, um, a student was asking about savvy making, and this was a student in the herbal medicine making course where there are like step-by-step videos for everything. But she was like, I don't know where to get beeswax. I like, I don't know anybody who has hives. And yeah,
Speaker 3:I tried following this beat, but he was zooming around so quick. I just couldn't see where the hive was.
Speaker 2:Um, and this person also, like there's no like health food store or whatever in their relatively local community. Like they would have to drive a couple hours to get to a place that would stuck these wax. Um, and so she was just like, I really wanna make this seven. I really don't know what to do. And I said, mountain rose, herbs.com is the answer because they have beeswax even like all the things that you need to like make your herbal medicines, even they have the fancy little tins,
Speaker 3:Uh, different kinds of tins, because you might prefer one kind over another small tins, little jars to put your sob into everybody has their preferences.
Speaker 2:And before you order like some big bulk box of tens from some big packaging supplier or whatever you want to know for sure that the tins that you get are the ones that you're going to want. So you can like, just right there with your border, you can get your bees wax, you can get your little tins to put your SAB in all the different kinds. So you can try like the screw top or the sort of pop on top or the slide back and forth top or whatever. Um,
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, and they've got the oils and they've got, oh yeah, the herbs that you may
Speaker 2:Want to include,
Speaker 3:That you want to infuse into your, into your oil and then make into your salve and yeah, yeah, yeah. So you it's, one-stop shopping. What can we say?
Speaker 2:But I think it is, it's really helpful, um, for herb students, because you know, a lot of times maybe you live in places where there just isn't these things aren't available, or if they are it's new to you and you don't know where to get them.
Speaker 3:I don't, I don't know that herbalism is really accurately described as like a niche practice, especially when you take our really broad view of what herbalism is and envy, but, uh, places to find the vast array of different tools and substances and, you know, things that you might require, uh, to explore herbalism in all its variety. Well, you need to, you need to, urbalism focused.
Speaker 2:Thanks for that. And mountain rose, herbs.com can be that place.
Speaker 3:Yeah. All right. So then asparagus, uh, I just, I keep wanting to say it that way. I keep wanting to emphasize this isn't asparagus,
Speaker 2:Right? Like there's a bunch of plants in the asparagus family. It's not just the vegetable that you eat even actually there even many varieties of the vegetable asparagus, but it's a big family.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the, the, the family there is going to be the asparagus ACA uh, anytime you have ACA at the end of your botanical word, that means they a family and that's, uh, a taxonomical order that's above the genus and the species. So when you get your plant names, like say asparagus, Russ, Moses, those two names are called the genus and species. Right. Um, and there are other asparagus plants out there, like asparagus efficient Alyse. Right. So that's the same genus, but a different species. Okay. So that's all, they're all related together. These two are fairly closely related because they're in that same genus, there are like 200 asparagus species. So, um, yeah, it is. Okay. Uh, and you know, th this is actually kind of an intriguing situation cause, um, many of the members of what's now considered the asparagus family have previously been considered, like are part of the Lily family. And there were a couple of other subgroups and they've gotten shifted around and so on. Um, but looking at plants by comparison and by family and by genetic relationships is often, uh, productive. Um, so we can actually, maybe it's
Speaker 2:Humans actually. So, okay. It is not true that in all human families talents kind of go throughout the family, but it is not uncommon that like a family everybody's good at music or in a family, there's a bunch of artists or in a family there like, uh, many generations of nurses or whatever. Um, and so herbs are the same way. Sometimes you get an herbal family and everybody in the family has totally different skills, but that's not as frequent, not as common as when you have an herbal family and the plants and the family have very similar skills.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Some overlap, some differentiation, you know, that's how it goes. So, you know, kinda, kinda, uh, riffing on that. Um, I've known some folks who've experimented with garden, asparagus, the stuff that you eat, uh, and said, well, what happens if we take the route? You know, uh, what happens if we try to work with that as a decoction and what does it taste like? What does it feel like? What kind of effects does it have that are
Speaker 2:Noticeable? What kind of energetic qualities can we detect with our senses and with our observations, um, and found some similarities to shatavari, but just have very, definitely stands apart. And I think that one comparison you could make here would be between garden Bazell and holy basil, garden, basil and Tulsi. Um, so garden basil is fantastic and it has nice aromatics and it's a great digestive relaxant. And honestly it does have nervous system like uplifting.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It can even help with blood sugar regulation to some extent, but when it comes to those, uh, uplifting qualities, when it comes to the hormonal and endocrine aspects of it, Tulsi does kind of stand apart in a way. And with asparagus, uh, the food in shatavari, the asparagus relative, uh, there's a similar kind of situation going on. So both asparagus and shutoff where you're going to be moistening and soothing and help to maintain the water elements, uh, of the, of the body. Um, but they shatavari has these extra elements that qualify it as an adaptogen. And, uh, one that you can work with for, uh, for smoothing out your stress responses in a way that so far anyway, uh, garden asparagus doesn't seem to do.
Speaker 2:It's like when you're playing a video game and pretty much the last video game that I remember is Pac-Man, but you know, you're just a little, Pac-Man, you're just eating your little dots and then like you eat that special dot and you blink and suddenly you can like eat the ghosts, like you're, you're charged up. And I think this is a thing that happens in all video games, but I just haven't really played any since Packnett. So
Speaker 3:There are occasional, uh, ways in which one can acquire powers.
Speaker 2:So it's like that, like, asparagus is awesome. You're a little Pac-Man, you're doing your thing. You're eight and your little white dots. And then[inaudible] is like, Ooh, you can really, you can really eat those ghosts now.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So these, when we say something like this, it's not just to say, uh, you know, clearly shatavari is superior in all ways. And it's like the better one, because it has more powers to it. Another way to interpret this kind of information is to say, oh, well, if I don't have shatavari, but I need some adaptogenic effects and I want to maintain a nice moistening effects, like all through the layers of my structure, then maybe I could combine, uh, asparagus or asparagus root together with something like ashwagandha or eleuthero and bring in their adaptogenic qualities and combine them with those moistening aspects. And that, that, again, that water elemental, um, manipulation and, uh, like reconstruct the set of effects that I'm looking for. When I turned to shutoff pre
Speaker 2:Listen, you might be like, when are you going to actually tell us about shatavari and why is this part so important? And here's why it's so important should hover it doesn't grow here, but asparagus not only grows here, but it goes bonkers. Like if you have some asparagus, pretty soon, you're going to have all of the asparagus. It's like, it's like zucchini. You know, like if you, if you plant one zucchini in your garden, you're going to have zucchini coming out your ears. It is that way with asparagus. Um, um, the root systems of asparagus get very, very large and you can actually harvest roots without destroying your stand of asparagus. If you're, if you're careful and you work around the edges. So, um, so where shatavari, I mean, you can buy shatavari in commerce for sure. But if this is a plant that you really want to work with and you don't have access to it, because it doesn't grow around here, that doesn't mean that you can't get these effects because it is so closely related to asparagus and asparagus grows so easily, um, here. So that's why it is worth knowing these, these substitutions. Um, because sometimes you don't have the, exactly the herbs that you want.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Right. Well, since I brought ashwagandha into the discussion, we should probably talk about that one for a minute. And the, these two shatavari and ashwagandha are often spoken of in the same breath. Okay.
Speaker 2:Really? Yes. Like I think that should have Rian ashwagandha, um, very much get put into the, so both of these are actually IRA, Vedic, herbs. Um, but like, if you think about the black and white yin yang symbol, the w you know, the black with the white dot and the white with the black dot, um, which, you know, comes from, from Chinese culture and Asian cultures. Um, and then you think about like the aggravated version of that, I feel like, oh, it's shatavari and ashwagandha, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. They do. They do make a nicely balanced pair. Um, if we were to look at them in terms of their energetic qualities, the ashwagandha is certainly on the warming side, that photography is a little bit on the cooling side. The ashwagandha is drying. The photography is moistening. Um, I consider both of them to be relaxing, but this is, this is something that we need.
Speaker 2:I feel like they're relaxing somewhat differently though. Yeah. Um, shatavari feels like relaxing so that you can relax and ashwagandha feels like, relax it so that you're not so tense so that you can do the things you need to do, you know? Yeah. Like, I mean, ashwagandha does have quite the reputation as a performance enhancing or, you know, like a athletic performance enhancing urban. I don't think that that is off the mark.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, energetics wise, it's kind of the difference between relaxation that you achieved through warmth versus that you achieved through moisture.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or like yeah. Like relaxation with action in it versus relaxation with relaxation in it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. But you know, the two of them. Right. So they, they have those, those complimentary qualities. And then they have a lot of overlapping qualities in terms of, again, the adaptogenic effects, the, the, um, improvement in your stress response, um, your ability to respond to stressors without getting completely thrown into a stress response, a fight or flight response. Um, and then to, and then to move back down out of that again. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that, that is so valuable today. So I, like, I almost feel like, you know, I mean, I drink ashwagandha every day. Um, and because my body runs damp anyway, um, I don't, I don't usually drink shatavari, um, on rare occasion, but usually not. Um, it's, it's ashwagandha for me every day, but if somebody were dry, like, oh, I don't know this guy. Um, yeah,
Speaker 3:Yeah. Actually, this is, this is one of those herbs where I'm like, I should really be, uh, working with photography more often, everything. Sometimes I even get around to doing it.
Speaker 2:We should make you your own nut coffee.
Speaker 3:I know I should have some kind of daily decoctions[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Daily chai. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You wouldn't be coffee for
Speaker 3:You for sure. This would be a good one to put in there. And she taught really works really well in decoctions. Um, uh, yeah. Yeah. That's a great way to say it, although, um, uh, on its own, it's actually not, not bad at all. You know, so we were talking about adding like coffee flavor or Chinese spice flavor or whatever, um, for delight and for the beneficial effects of those herbs themselves, but Shatara on its own is worth, um, tasting. It has kind of like a nutty flavor to it. There's a little bit of sweetness. There's a little bit of bitter, nowhere near as much as ashwagandha.
Speaker 2:The butter was really hard to find actually underneath the nuttiness or like it has body. Yeah,
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. The flavor does remind me a lot of Solomon seal, um, which was another herb I wanted to bring into the discussion today. Um, they are, they are related, they're both asparagus CA Solomon seal is in a different subfamily here, but anyway,
Speaker 2:They're cousins instead of siblings.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's really good. Um, so, you know, Solomon seal is one of his on Arab. I've worked with a lot more, uh, extensively and, and for a longer, um, but again, the flavor of the two of them is, is similar. And that speaks to having some qualities in common, right. A little bit of sweetness, the moistening qualities of it nuttiness,
Speaker 2:Or like kinkiness, like it, it has a bready kind of flavor to it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, the Solomon seal, uh, uh, rhizomes have been, you know, just kinda like roasted like a potato sort of a starchy thing, which sounds really appealing to me. It's not something that I've done because I have not yet cultivated, uh, the enormous stands of Solomon seal that are in our future,
Speaker 2:Um, in the future they're coming there, but we've always,
Speaker 3:And then maybe on my birthday, I'll dig up a few Solomon's seal tubers and rhizomes rhizomes and roast them.
Speaker 2:Uh, every single apartment we've had Solomon seal, we've carried it with us and then we always leave a little bit behind and we carry it to the next place. Um, but in our future, someday there is going to be like so much Solomon seal. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's going to be good. Well, and you know, and asparagus, right? Yeah. Well, Solomon seal has been, um, an herb that I, I often will ask other herbalists if I can like corner them at a conference or something and be like, Hey, Hey, when you run out of Solomon seal, what are some herbs that, that can partially substitute for it? Uh, because there are some plants where a substitute is pretty easy. You know, if you don't have time, you can work with a rhino. Yeah. There's differences, but practically speaking. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, they're, they're really interchangeable. They're like twins,
Speaker 3:But Solomon seal would that amazing
Speaker 2:For any twins out there. And I don't really mean it. You're not actually interchangeable. They're not, no, you're not. You're not, each of you is important.
Speaker 3:Okay. Yeah. Clones, I dunno. Okay. Uh, anyway, Solomon seal, right. Hard to find a single herb that can do the things that Solomon seal,
Speaker 2:It's hard to find a collection of herbs that can do the things that Solomon see it. Like it's not actually easy to formulate for Solomon seal. It's, it's challenging. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. And w what are we most, most interested in are most referring to there? Um, not just as a moistening Arab, you know, can support some mucus membranes and so on, like other demulcents, but Solomon seal can really move that fluid into and through connective tissues, tendons, and ligaments, the fascia layer of the body. Um, and that's really fantastic for a whole big array of different connective tissue situations and pains and discomforts injuries and inflammatory conditions, and a lot of things. And
Speaker 2:She Tafari has that action, but it's very targeted it, like it's very targeted towards pelvic floor connective tissue. Um, and so I feel like if I needed to get that action throughout the whole body, that's when it becomes challenging because Solomon seal has that action really directed to joint connective tissue. Um, but on the other hand, like because of our culture, because of the sedentary nature of our culture, almost all of us need some help in the pelvic floor. Um, whether like, if we're a dry person, then we're going to need that moistening action to help in the pelvic floor. Um, you know, that's that the stuff that I work with for pelvic floor support would not only not be comfortable in a body like yours could in fact be, I, I don't want to go so far as to say damaging, but, uh, discomfort.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, certainly if it's a dry person with pelvic stagnation is to take a bunch of Shepherd's purse, this isn't going to help them. No,
Speaker 2:No. It's going to aggravate them. I grew up eating. That's the word I want.
Speaker 3:Right. Um, so yeah, so again, it's not like a direct, you know, across the board substitute for Solomon seal, but it is a decent candidate. Uh, if we are trying to rebuild or to re to formulate that out of other herbs, I might say, start with[inaudible] some Japanese, uh, not weed, maybe some teasel root, if I've got it. Um, and, uh, and then, yeah, like you, like, you implied some dispersive herbs, maybe prickly Ash, or something to try to extend that effect throughout the system.
Speaker 2:I like the prickly Ash idea. Yeah. I mean, I always turn to ginger, but I actually really liked the prickly Ash idea there.
Speaker 3:Um, well, so those are some hover shatavari thoughts. Do you have other stuff? I guess we haven't like said the sort of usual things of like, it's great if elderly women are experiencing vaginal dryness, you know, along with their fatigue and other
Speaker 2:Right, right, right. It really is. It really is about dryness, especially dryness in the pelvic floor. And that might be because of vaginal dryness. Um, but it might also be, um, you know, any kind of depletion or, um, even like a dry congestion. So again like sedentism, but, um, you know, shatavari like every other herbs, it's not just for, um, anyone it's for everyone. So let's say that we're working with someone who has BPH and a super dry constitution, and now we want to give them nettle root and SOP how meadow, and they're already super dry. That's going to be really uncomfortable. Um, BPH is a localized, damp situation, but still in a dry body. Yes. We do need to deal with that localized dampness, but we don't want to dry everything out. And so shatavari would be a really important part of a protocol for a person with that kind of constitution dealing with BPH.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Cool. Um, astragalus, astragalus straggles time. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Less time and struggle us, which sounds so much like asparagus, but it's not, um, astragalus is an herb that, um, I always think about when I'm sick and I'm like, ah, when I'm starting to feel better, I should really drink a bunch of astragalus and then I forget. And then when we drink astragalus it's because I say, gosh, darn it. We really need to do this. And I move it to the kitchen and that's when we really do it. Um, because to me astragalus, I don't know why, but I really got in the habit of putting a struggle as into rice and putting astragalus into broth. Those are the two places that I really, and honestly, okay. I actually, there is a lot of traditional call for that. Um,
Speaker 3:It's a great way to work with the urban.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And it is an urban about nourishment. It is an herb about rebuilding. Um, I like to think about it as, um, like a savings account. So let's say you have a savings account to go on vacation and you save up and you save up and whenever you have some extra money, you put it in that vacation account and then you go on vacation and you spend that account. Right. That's what the money is for. It is time to vacate and spend that money. And when you come home, that account is going to be empty because you went on vacation. And so I think about that with regard to immune health and, you know, we're, we're always building up our immune savings account, like any night that you get a good night of sleep. Excellent. That's some immune savings account, right there any day that you eat a couple extra vegetables who Ray, that is your immune savings account. Like all those things, anytime you do a thing with health in it is like, good job. You just put some extra whatever in your immune savings account, and then you get sick and you spent that. And so I always think about a straggling in terms of rebuilding the immune savings account for when we need it. And, um, and that, that just is such a nourishing action in my mind that I just always associated with food. And when I'm finally like, really just need to drink this also, it's not enough in the food. I also want to drink it. I have to move it to the kitchen because that's, that's where I think of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Then that's, that's fair though. I was astragalus um, a couple of the things about, about working with the Serb, you're going to find it available in your cut and sifted version. You're like dried shredded, uh, uh, herbs, and then often also available as root slices. Um, and I like the root in a couple of different ways. I like them for adding into broth, especially for people who are not going to eat all of the things that we've put into their breath. Like if we put a bunch of code Innopsis and Burdoch, and, um, you know, medicinal mushrooms and even seaweeds, and they're like, I'm not going to eat that stuff. You can put a strain it out in my soup, I'll drink, I'll drink the fluid. Um, if you know, you're going to do that, then yeah, go ahead. With the root slices for the astragalus make it easier. It's just
Speaker 2:Easier to strain it out that way. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I also like those root slices to chew on, um, it's not exactly a stick of gum, but it is a stick like thing. And then you chew on it and the new to it for a while and there's some flavor and then the flavor fades and then you're done. Um, but with, with, with that method, um, like this is, this is, I think I have them in my mind is like two routes. I guess there are other parts of the plant that you can chew on, but with like licorice root pieces or pieces of Calamus root or slices of the straggle list root, um, it is a really effective way to extract herbal constituents. You've got mechanical grinding action. You've got a watery extraction that's ongoing and is, is like, think of like a, like a percolation setup that's continually running. That's sort of what, you're what you're doing in your
Speaker 2:It's exactly what you described. Right. You chew it until it doesn't have any flavor anymore
Speaker 3:Reactions that are taking place to buy things down and liberate constituents. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. The flavors like smell and like color. Those are phytochemicals. It isn't like the flavor is just some kind of extra bonus thing. When the flavor's gone, you got the stuff out, you know, all you're left with is the fiber at that point. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I mean, you can even swallow the fibrous leftover bits if you want. They're probably either food for your flora or if not, just some bulking fiber and that's nice every now and then, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah. You really, um, you really get kind of obsessed with chewing, like every day for a while there. Um, and in now in this apothecary, the astragalus is, it's like way harder. It's much harder to reach it's in a very high spot, um, in the corner. Yeah. So it is, I actually feel like you stopped chewing you with,
Speaker 3:We had the, we had the space in the city and I would, I would go there and teach and then walk home. I would always like climb up on the shelf and then grabbing a straggle, a slice, uh, before I would head out like last thing, you know, part of the habit, this is like, this is the way that, that a lot of habits get formed, you know, is like, oh, it's just becomes a thing that you do. And it's part of your leaving the office routine then right up.
Speaker 2:And now I get my astragalus slice. Yeah. So I, you know, it is, it might seem a little weird to chew on a root, but the slices are quite thin. Um, so it's not like it's uncomfortable or anything. It's not any weird and than chewing on gum, except it's not synthetic. Yeah. They soften up quick. And that is like, that is where the concept of chewing gum came from. There are different things that people choose, um, throughout history. Uh, but roots were one of them. And so it is like a much more traditional form of chewing gum than what we have today. So if you try chewing on asparagus slices, some people might think you're weird, but you don't have to tell them, that's what you're chewing on. They will just assume that you're chewing gum and you never have to tell them any different. And that way they're not going to say that is the weirdest thing I've ever heard. And there you go, you get all the benefits of the stragglers and your friends. Don't think you're strange. Your friends may already think you're strange in which case go wild. But, uh, you know, like sometimes people before they try something new, they're like, uh, this is kind of weird. People are gonna think I'm really weird. Nah, people aren't going to know, just go ahead. She wants some roots.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, so a straggle has benefits. Um, we think of this or, uh, with greatest connection to the immune system, um, and astragalus is not like an immune stimulant. It's not something where you're like, oh, I'm starting to get sick. I better drink a bunch of astragalus to caution. And then it will wake my immune system up and fight it all off. I'm not quite with disturbance a bit different astragalus is more like what you said about after being sick and wanting to recover and wanting to recover fully and thoroughly and get yourself all the way back, uh, refill that, that account you were mentioning.
Speaker 2:I just associated with like convalescence, right? Like the recovery phase, which by the way, this culture really doesn't appreciate convalescence. Like we don't have any convalescence in our culture anymore. And I really think that we should like,
Speaker 3:Well, you're not leaking snot anymore. And if you caffeinate yourself, you can pretty much keep your eyes open. So you should be at work.
Speaker 2:That's how, that's how it goes. But I think that that concept of, uh, of a like period of time after being sick, where you're just recovering your strength, because you just did a big thing of fighting off the sickness, that's critically important, important to the human body. That is a step that we cannot skip, uh, skipping that step is not an actually an option from the body's perspective, from our culture's perspective, that step is irrelevant. We don't need it. And now we're all walking around depleted all of the time, because we're never giving ourselves this opportunity for convalescence.
Speaker 3:You were thinking about bras and about cooking it into rice. And these are the kinds of foods that you want to be eating when recovering, right. It's not, it's not like time to leap into a, a raw spinach salad immediately after your last flu or your last fever of the flu cycle, right.
Speaker 2:For your four
Speaker 3:Guts. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, astragalus is one of these herbs that we're going to, we're going to take, uh, in those simple, easy to digest foods, not too complicated, uh, not a ton of ingredients, you know, cooked for a good long time. So the digestion is done for you even before you eat it. Um, but you can add a straggle, a sensor there and really power up a bras or some Kanji or grool or something like that. That's such a negative connotations to it.
Speaker 2:Let's say grits, you know, like you could put a straggler into, if you're a hot cereal kind of person, you can put a struggle less into any hot cereal of your choice. Go right ahead. Yes. Um, when I think about pairing astragalus, I am always thinking about code Innopsis and like these two are just my
Speaker 3:Mero. She wants to sell it. She wants to say it. I was counting down in my head. I was like,[inaudible], it's coming.
Speaker 2:I do want to say marrow because that's, what's going on in convalescence. One of the things you're doing is like building back your bone marrow because your bone marrow is where you make all those immune response cells. And so when you get sick, your bone marrow goes into like super production mode, right. So that you can fight that stuff off. And that's not a problem. Your, your body can do that. But you know, if you don't spend a little time building it back, then you're going to have supply chain issues. Right. Um, because if you just use up all your materials to make all of those immune responders, and now we don't resupply the bone marrow so that it can make the next round of immune responders, then, uh, you're gonna have stores with nothing on the shelves and then
Speaker 3:Inflation might happen. I don't know what that would be in the body, but
Speaker 2:We've run this metaphor out. Um, so anyway, that, yeah, that's what I'm thinking about is, is restoring the capacity in the body. And, and so code Innopsis is one of my other favorite herbs to do that with, um, also a sweet tasting herbs, also fantastic in broth or like anywhere, rice, whatever. Um, and
Speaker 3:Pretty good as the true root also coding off system falls apart faster than stragglers.
Speaker 2:Well, that's because it's not a Woody root it's, it's really like a parsnip it's, it's really, really like a person. And, and it also tastes that way after a while of chewing it, like it has the same kind of texture of like, I think I'm chewing personal. Yeah. Yeah. It's not as fibery right.
Speaker 3:Yeah. The two of them go together really well. Um, it's not uncommon for us to also be putting together with, with astragalus with code Innopsis to put something like shatavari or ashwagandha in there, or seaweed
Speaker 2:Seaweeds. Right. These are all like moistening things. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right. Astragalus astragalus does have a slight moistening quality to it. Right. It's not like a demulcent Arab really.
Speaker 2:It's only marshmallow root. Yeah. It's not, but it really eliminates in the it's in the club, you know, but yeah. Okay. So you got a breath you put in your stragglers, you put in, so code Innopsis, um, could Innopsis is one of the more expensive herbs and astragalus is quite a bit less expensive. So that also can be really helpful when you're like, ah, I really wish I had some Codonopsis or I have a little code Innopsis that's okay. Have you could have an Opsis and then have a struggle with it. Put your seaweed in the broth, put some kind of medicinal mushroom. I really like my talkie, but it could be whoever you like Turkey, tail, whatever. And then, um, have that it's like make a big pot of it and have that as you are in your recovery time. Not your, my face is still dripping. It's not time your recovery time afterwards. Like I'm starting to maybe feel like a human again. You're not done yet at that part. You, uh, your body is still doing stuff. So that is still a time to, uh, be in that rebuilding phase. You're out of the acute critical part, but you're S you're now in that rebuilding convalescent phase, uh, that we have erased from our culture, but still your body has not erased it. Your body still needs it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Those are some really excellent, uh, combinations to work with with straggle lists. We, water water is the way to go with this one. I mean, we've made a tincture of a straggle list before.
Speaker 2:I mean, listen to the same[inaudible] I will not make a tincture of a[inaudible].
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I know people are doing it and, and I that's fine, honestly, but, but at home, uh, it's about water. Um, yeah, like I said, I was starting to say we've made a straggle tincture before and everything, but it just didn't didn't thrill me. Um, and a lot of the constituents that are, that seem to be responsible, uh, for activity from astragalus here, you need them in a decent quantity to, to get the real effect from them kind of similar to your, your mushrooms, uh, or your seaweeds in, in that regard. Um, like there are ways that it can be concentrated, uh, through the magic technology and everything, but, um, but uh, for home preparations, water is going to is going to be the best way to go. Yeah, absolutely. And, and good long cooking for this too, you know, a decoction a super bras, something like that. Um, put in a Crock-Pot that's great. Yup.
Speaker 2:Yep. Or, you know, like chai, but listen, if you're going to make it with chai and you're not making your choice by splendid yourself, a lot of Chinese spice blends have black tea in them. So either get one that doesn't, um, which I think would be preferable, but, um, and, and this is going to work with astragalus with shatavari with both of them together, whatever. But the thing here is that if you are going to incorporate black tea into your chai and you also want these roots in it, then let it simmer in the pot or on the stove or wherever for at least half an hour, and then put the tea in the black tea at the very last minute, because otherwise your black tea is going to be like super duper
Speaker 3:Bitter. It'll get a stringent. It won't
Speaker 2:Be very pleasant.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Right. And if you are like in a recovery or rebuilding phase, then you don't really want to be taking caffeine than anyway. That's not, we, you
Speaker 2:Might want to, but your body will not thank you for it.
Speaker 3:Right. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's what I meant there.
Speaker 2:Well, um, I really, I really do love this team made with the[inaudible], the astragalus cacao and Hawthorne and ginger and cinnamon and cardamom it's have,
Speaker 3:This is, this came up pretty good. Um, so this one, uh, could have been a decoction, but um, if you listen to the pod before you might know that sometimes we'll take and put herbs into a press pot. So it's a sealed, like vacuum container. It's going to stay pretty much at boiling temperature. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that commercially they're called air pots. We call everything a press pot. And so we're not referring to a French press here. We're referring to an air pot that big, tall, silver thing with like the black top that has a little handle that you push and it spits out the hot beverage.
Speaker 3:Yeah. People will often like just make coffee and put it in there
Speaker 2:Or something. You'll see these. Yeah. But you can have one at home. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And, and, and on, on days when we, you know, get started on time and everything with the team making and know that we're going to drink that whole thing and then probably pour more boiling water into it again later in the day. Um, then I do feel comfortable with most, most decoction herbs, uh, in that, in that preparation,
Speaker 2:Because it stays so hot in there. It's hotter than you can drink, like you pour in the boiling water and it stays very close to that hot the whole time. So it's not exactly ducting like at a rolling boil. Right. But absolutely the same temperature that a simmer would be. Yeah,
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, that's, that's going to do the job and get the, the constituent extraction that we're looking for. Um, I did combine these two liters here, uh, just because we were going to be talking about them today. All right. Well, let's try,
Speaker 2:But honestly, I think that if you had this every day for a week, you would really feel a big difference.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I might, I might do that. Yeah. Um, cause if, again, if you're new, uh, I, I, I'm on, I'm on the representative of the dry constitutional pattern on this particular podcast and, uh, you know,
Speaker 2:And a lot of the herbs that you enjoy are either drying, not super drying, like oversea. Like I like, but still drying or just, just barely neutral, you know, like you like mints, you like, none of those are moistening.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I also probably, um, need to take another, another step at expanding my demulcents pallet, you know, because for a long time it was like just marshmallow. And then it was like, well also licorice and fennel and violet and Linden and some other things and trying to make sure I was included at least one of them in whatever tea blend that happened to be putting together. Um, but I think that I need to circle back and take a closer look at[inaudible], um, as constitutional balancing herbs and recognizing that like, maybe I don't, I don't feel like somebody who has compromised immunity or get sick easily or anything, but like, why not give an occasional immune boost feed my marrows and things it needs. Right. And on the [inaudible] side, you know, get some of that connective tissue, uh, uh, uh, uh, appreciation and, and care. Uh, some of that pelvic floor fluid movement make sure things are happening well, um, sued the nerves. Okay. That's like, that's a fine idea. Um, so yeah, so I am, uh, uh, planning a little while here of being more consistent with these ones I put in the kick-out today, um, in large part, because I was like, all right, what's going to taste really good together with that nuttiness from the shatavari. Um, and cacao seemed to be the perfect thing. These are just the cacao nibs are like the dried, uh, pieces of the cow, um, comes out really nice. It's a great ingredient in herbal decoctions there's a tiny little bit of caffeine in there. There's a lot more of this compound called theobromine. Um, but, uh, cacao is, you know, it's an accelerant, it's a Bronco dilator. It's a mild digestive, it's a cardiovascular, uh, relaxant. It's lovely. Right. And then Hawthorne kind of bouncing on that cardiovascular idea, but often put cow and Hawthorne together in these kinds of things.
Speaker 2:It also rounds out the flavor like Catherine gives it like just a little sour kind of
Speaker 3:Tiny, tiny a little bit. Yeah. And then the cha the cherubs. Right. So ginger and cardamom are kind of the base they're little touch of cinnamon. If I had had a jar club's handy, I might've put one in, but no half a cup, half of a year, something like that.
Speaker 2:I, I, um, I'm in my body. I'm wishing there was more ginger in here. Um, cause I really do, like when you drink it, you feel the moistening like it's wetter than regular tea. It's a little silky. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:Um, you might need to squirt some ginger tincture into your teacup. Yeah. Something like that. All right. Um, so those are some thoughts from today on[inaudible]. Uh, if you already work with these herbs a lot and have other, uh, thoughts, then we'd love to hear them. You're always encouraged to reach out to us info@commonwealtharabs.com. Um, or if you're a student in any of our online courses, then, uh, we've got discussion threads attached to every single lesson we've got community forums. Um, if you want to get some social contact, but want to stay away from Facebook, this is a great place to do that. Yes. And we'd love to hear what your experiences are and your thoughts, whether they track with ours or whether they diverge
Speaker 2:Or if you're doing something different. Like yeah. It's, it's fun to hear all the different ways that people are in relationship with these plants. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So get in touch with us, uh, join up with our student community. We'd love to have you, uh, you can find all the information you need about that@commonwealthherbs.com, but we'll be back next week with some more holistic herbalism podcasts for you until then take care of yourselves. Take care of each other, drink some tea, drink some tea and, uh, Asper strangulate all of your guys'
Speaker 2:Andrew girls' and everybody
Speaker 1:[inaudible].